16 replies to this topic

[Idolator]

Did you hear that a new edition of the Warhammer 40k rules came out???

Due to the recent release of the Warhammer 40K 6th edition rule book, there will be no Mini-RTT in the week before our first league using the new 6th edition rules.

Instead, we are going to have a “get to know the 6th” night at the store.  This will allow people to come in and familiarize themselves with the new rules as well as hammer out any questions that they may have. So come on in, bring a 1,666 point army and get your game on.  The league coordinator will be there to assist with any difficulties that you may have with the transition.


The first league to be played will begin on August 1st and will have a point limit of 1,666 points throughout the league. (The point limit was kept low due to the unfamiliarity of rules causing play to go longer than normal.

Allies, flyers and fortifications will be in play.

Proxies:   No proxy of models will be allowed.

Imperial Armour will be allowed after approval from league coordinators.
A few quick guidelines for approval:
Models cannot be super heavy or gargantuan creatures.
Models cannot use Apocalyptic templates or blast markers.
Models cannot use strength “D” weapons.

All games will follow the game scenarios in the 6th edition rule book.

Determining the winner of each game will be based on the Primary objective. Each objective held and each secondary objective goes toward League point total.

League points are used to determine: Best overall, warlord, paint and sportsmanship categories.

Please feel free to ask any questions that you have, either here or at the store.

Let's have some fun!
Josh

[Idolator]

Finally figured out how to post an image.
Here's the first week's mission.

[IMG]http://i1270.photobu...1666-1.jpg[/IMG]

[Eidre]

Just to clarify for my softened brain...the "get to know 6th" will be tomorrow, the 25th of July?  And it'll be a free, come-as-you-are even where everyone just pairs off as they wish?

[Idolator]

Eidre, on 24 July 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

Just to clarify for my softened brain...the "get to know 6th" will be tomorrow, the 25th of July?  And it'll be a free, come-as-you-are even where everyone just pairs off as they wish?

Yes sir!
The 25th is for everyone to come in and get familiar with the new 6th edition rules. As there are more than a few people that don't get a chance to come in and play on other days, this will give them a chance to play test, ask questions, learn any league specific rules and figure out what holes that they may have in their army due to the new rules.

Such as, right now, there are very few ways to counter act flyers. The two main ways to do this are to take an allied Imperial Guard with Hydras or take a fortification.

I only recommend bringing a 1,666 point list since that is what we will be playing for the first league.

It will also allow people to ask about Imperial Armour units, define whether a model is a conversion or a proxy and anything else that may come to mind.

I will be there are the store at 6:30 to assist anyone and to answer questions. Possibly even get a game in myself.

Josh

[gen.ruckus]

Sounds good to me, i'll be there ready to play, i would most likely show up sometime around noon if anyone wants to get some games in, i've played at least 15 games so far so i can help some get used to the rules changes. so if anyone wants to play. lets get it on! also...the league mission is very close to the book missions, so it will be a nice way to learn how to setup in 6th.

[gen.ruckus]

josh, you should include the terrain density rules in the missions so people dont go run and grab all ruins or a bunch of terrain from the shelves.

[Durgan]

So... no mini RTT then. Just bring a 1,666 list tomorrow?

[Idolator]

Durgan, on 24 July 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

So... no mini RTT then. Just bring a 1,666 list tomorrow?

Yes.

NO MINI-RTT.

Casual play. 1,666 point army recommended but not absolutely required.

[Idolator]

gen.ruckus, on 24 July 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

josh, you should include the terrain density rules in the missions so people dont go run and grab all ruins or a bunch of terrain from the shelves.

I will address this prior to the league beginning as well,since there is nothing deffinetive about how much terrain should be place, leaving up to the individual players.

We will be using the old league standard of 25% of the table playing surface must be terrain. This will allow all players to have terrain that they can use.

[Idolator]

To correct a few glaring ommisions in the Errata put out by Gamesworkshop.

Grey Knights codex

Stormraven Gunships, Dark Skies.
Change the first sentence to read: “If the Stormraven has
moved more than 6", passengers can still disembark, but they
must do so as follows.”
Change the penultimate sentence to read: “If any of the
models cannot be deployed the unit is destroyed”.

Imperial Gurard codex

Valkyrie/Vendetta Gunships, Grav Chute Insertion.
Change the first sentence to read: “If the Valkerie or Vendetta has
moved more than 6", passengers can still disembark, but they
must do so as follows.”
Change the penultimate sentence to read: “If any of the
models cannot be deployed the unit is destroyed”.

You can only voluntarily disembark in the movement phase.
If anyone else has found serious discrepacies. Let me know and I will try to have the issue corrected.

[Pyrian]

Are you letting them disembark while Zooming, or not? I think that's more significant than whether it's in the movement phase.

[gen.ruckus]

Well looking at diembarking during the movement phase, it says passangers may not voluntarily disembarck if the vehicle moved over 6" which is totally fine, and i agree with that. The problem you are running into, josh. is when you get passed the movement phase, when vehicles move flat out, and all three codex's and relevant faq's state, if the "whatever vehicle" moves flat out, passangers may still disembark, but do so as follows.....etc....thats where this arguement breaks down. passengers cant get out if the vehicles moves more than 6' in the movement phase, but then you can flat out, and then may still disembark along the line where the vehicles moves. which in that case is totally fine

Further example, go ahead and take one of those oval sized bases, move it 6" and then draw a line from where and to the vehicle moved then try to deep strike your models in that spot, if you cant, then your guys are dead. the 6" restriction is in the movement phase, flat out isnt in the movement phase, even if it were, the rules state you "may" still disembark if your vehicles has moved flat out, so i dont see why this is a problem, or even a rules debate.

[Idolator]

gen.ruckus, on 26 July 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Well looking at diembarking during the movement phase, it says passangers may not voluntarily disembarck if the vehicle moved over 6" which is totally fine, and i agree with that. The problem you are running into, josh. is when you get passed the movement phase, when vehicles move flat out, and all three codex's and relevant faq's state, if the "whatever vehicle" moves flat out, passangers may still disembark, but do so as follows.....etc....thats where this arguement breaks down. passengers cant get out if the vehicles moves more than 6' in the movement phase, but then you can flat out, and then may still disembark along the line where the vehicles moves. which in that case is totally fine

Further example, go ahead and take one of those oval sized bases, move it 6" and then draw a line from where and to the vehicle moved then try to deep strike your models in that spot, if you cant, then your guys are dead. the 6" restriction is in the movement phase, flat out isnt in the movement phase, even if it were, the rules state you "may" still disembark if your vehicles has moved flat out, so i dont see why this is a problem, or even a rules debate.

Firstly, the BA codex no longer references Flat out and disembark as the FAQ has changed the sentence, preventing them from disembarking from a Storm raven that moved flat out, also preventing the vehicle from moving flat out in the shooting phase as per the disembark rules.
Secondly, the only two codeci that allow for disembarkation after moving more than 6" are Blood Angels and Necrons, the lifting of the restriction allows disembarkation from a zooming flyer, in my opinion, which I will allow in the game.

you are stating that you are allowed to move more than 6" and disembark,(a rule that is not over ridden) while also stating that you ignore the move and shoot restriction in the shooting phase ( a rule that is not over ridden),just because the FAQ overrides which phase that a model can disembark. An exemption from one rule does not confer exemption from the other rules as they were not addressed. The fact that following all the rules as written is next to impossible proves that there is an error.  

The only voluntary move that can be made in the shooting phase is RUN.

A quick word on what trumps what. Generaly speaking, it's FAQ over Codex over Rule Book. There are exceptions, never more so than when a new rule book comes out. Here's a great exception, How many hull points does the FAQ and Codex list for Valkyries? None, so does it ignore the hull points rules or does it begin the game detroyed? Neither, as the Rule book overrides them all.

There is another way to read the rule besides either your or my interpretation.

You move the Valkyrie 6" and then you are allowed to go Flatout in the shooting phase even though the passengers disembarked. But you have to deep strike.

The post that I made earlier, in reference to the Grav chute and Dark Skies will be the rules that we will be utilizing. (Until GW gets around to correcting their corrections)

We had a simmilar issue with the shokk attack gun in the last edition. The Codex stated that a vehicle took an automatic panetrating hit on the roll of double 6's, the faq stated that unless it was a gargantuan creatue or super heavy it was removed. It was an obvious error and should not have included the Super Heavy reference.

The truth of the matter is that GW really made a hash of the FAQ's. It adressed zooming flyers in the Necron FAQ, but doesn't anywhere else. Adresses the over 6" move in Blood Angels but doesn't anywhere else. Ignores the First sentence of GK blood Skies and IG Grav Chute, and completely doesn't adress blood skies at all.

[Idolator]

I saw a rules argument in another forum that I found to be rediculous. To avoid having the same issue with our games, I will address it and make a league ruling.

Currently, in the strict Rules as Written, you cannot assault in your assault phase if the models had to disembark in your opponents shooting phase, regardless of whether the vehicle was an assault vehicle or not. Also, according to RaW, your models that disembark from an assault vehicle, due to shooting, are allowed to assault in your opponents assault phase.

For this league, neither is the case. You cannot declare assaults in you opponents turn, unless your codex clearly states that this is allowed. Also, if your models did not begin their movement phase embarked upon a vehicle they can move, shoot/run or assault as normal.(unless they are pinned or falling back)

Josh

[Pyrian]

Assaulting on the opponent's turn is obviously nonsense, I think everyone can agree on that.

But a substantial majority of several forums are agreeing that you cannot assault after getting out of a non-assault transport in your next assault phase, regardless of method or timing. And I think that makes sense, too, not just because that's what the rule says, but also on account of the silliness of leaving transports intact so you can't be assaulted by their contents.

That does leave the issue of assault vehicles not working when they're blown up in your opponent's turn, but I'd just house-rule that as an oversight.

[Idolator]

Pyrian, on 27 July 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Assaulting on the opponent's turn is obviously nonsense, I think everyone can agree on that.

But a substantial majority of several forums are agreeing that you cannot assault after getting out of a non-assault transport in your next assault phase, regardless of method or timing. And I think that makes sense, too, not just because that's what the rule says, but also on account of the silliness of leaving transports intact so you can't be assaulted by their contents.

That does leave the issue of assault vehicles not working when they're blown up in your opponent's turn, but I'd just house-rule that as an oversight.

You've got some great points there Mickey. I'm gonna have to do some more searching around. We will not be allowing an assault in you opponents assault phase, because, as you said, it's obviously nonsense. We will also be allowing the assault in your turn if models were embarked in an assault vehicle.

That last bit though will need some looking into. We have more than a few Marine players and I wouldn't want to negatively impact them when the intent is unknown. I will be getting back to this before we begin.

Also, before the weekend is up I will have the basics of the league rules up as well as the scenarios.

[Rancid Blade]

Hey all,

Thanks for a fun kick off to the league last night!  I had a real blast.  Thanks Josh for organizing and Brain for a great game.  Looking forward to next week!

Ben