111 replies to this topic

[TheDirtyHippy]

Added some more stuff and moved everything unconfirmed to the bottom.

iDaemon, on 23 June 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

I'm freaking out man!!!

White Dwarf also mentions that Daemons cause Fear, so I added that

[TheDirtyHippy]

Even more updates.

Anyone out there have thoughts?

[Idolator]

TheDirtyHippy, on 24 June 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Even more updates.

Anyone out there have thoughts?

That Ap value for close combat weapons just made every one dust off or go buy terminators.
The same rule also punched orks in the face.

Gonna need to make sure that your vehicles can be turned upside down, boys. They are gonna get glanced to death!

I think that you will see more of those ancillary Independant Characters running around (with special weapons of course)

The rule about removing casualties starting with the closest is a turd. I forsee many a disagreement about who is closer. It will effect how you deploy and move in a time consuming way.

I think that mysterious terrain will go the way of buildings from 5th edition. (no one really wanted to use them)


Allies is a great idea, from a gamer perspective as well a business perspective. It makes it easier to utilize models from other armies, without having to build up a full army list.Thereby causing more models to be purchased. The only downside to this is that every power gamer out there will have a farseer with them. I hope that special rules only affect the allied army not the "host" army, keeping this from being abused.

[Idolator]

What the heck is with these hyper links in my post????? I didn't put them there!!

[TheDirtyHippy]

Wound Allocation
Yeah, I'm a bit worried about it too.  
The rumors are that you roll each model individually for each batch of incoming wounds.

Here's the good
-No more "I'll put both the plasma hits on this guy and everyone else takes bolter hits"
-1 failed save = 1 wound caused (no more, this guy fails 3 times and this guy passes 3 times)
-Outflanking and mobility become even more important, as the important guys are going to be in the back/side

Here's the bad
-It's going to slow the game down
-Removing from the front will hurt foot slogging assault armies
-I personally think that a melta gun is just picked up by the next guy over when the guy holding it dies


Allies
From a business perspective, it's brilliant.
GW will sell more models from different armies.  Then you're going to have a couple units that you'll probably want build into a new force.

From a hobbyist perspective, it's brilliant.
Primarily, I can once again have real Daemons with my Chaos Marines.  That's freakin' AWESOME!
I could also take traitor guard, which I have been slowly building up for a while now.
For my Orks, I can have Deathskulls that literally loot anything.  I'm really tempted to make some Orks in looted power armour just for the fun of it.  I can have speeders and cool tanks.
I could even bring Chaos Androids (Necrons).

Balance
It simply unbalances things.  There's just too many ways to fill in weaknesses in your book with things from other books.
Those wonderful power gamers are going to take full advantage of this and it's going to hurt.
I bet that allies are going to be house-ruled all over the place.

Tyranids
I am really disappointed that Tyranids can't have IG allies in the form of Genestealer Cult.  That would have been awesome.
I would allow this in any league I was running (if it was converted, of course).

Vehicles
I don't know if it's as bad as everyone seems to think.  Yes, vehicles are going to be less survivable, but not that much.

Raiders & Venoms/Chimeras/Razorbacks are actually going to see an improvement, I think.  Glancing hits will no longer shake them, so they're going to get to fire more often.  Penatrating hits are going to destroy vehicles less (except AP 2 and AP 1), so all of the missle/autocannon spam is going to have to remove all hull points to be as effective.  Those squads already do a lot of damage against lower armour vehicles.  That's not going to change.  But 4 missles at a Chimera currently will probably kill it and if not, it will mostly likely be unable to shoot.  In this ruleset, the Chimera has a very decent chance of being alive and able to shoot.  Will it survive another volley?  No.  Doesn't matter, it will still get to shoot again, most likely at that devastator squad.  

Dark Eldar vehicles are already paper.  But now, there's a decent chance that if they are not destroyed from being shot at, they will be able to fire at full effect the next turn.  I really think people are underestimating how often they shoot at an enemy until it is shaken, then move to the next target.  That won't work anymore, so they will be taking an increased amount of fire from enemy vehicles.  That means mech armies are going to see an increase in ability to front load damage.  Mech armies are going to lose their tanks more often, but it will be on later turns than people currently expect.

Also, if rumors are true, you can only move 6" and disembark, so Melta guns are going to be much harder to get into 2D6 armour pen range.  While Str 6, 7, and 8 volume of fire is great, EVERYONE that can take melta guns, does take melta guns.  They're simply too good in this edition.  That's going to increase survivablility of Land Raiders and Battlewagons.  Sure they get +2 on the damage chart, but without that 2D6 for armour pen, they really aren't amazing.  Land Raiders I think are going to get better, as just about the only thing that ever killed them reliably was Melta guns.  Getting 4 glancing hits on a LR is not an easy task.

[TheDirtyHippy]

Added a ton more.

[gen.ruckus]

one thing i might do is use my IG for my dark angels army, makes sense plus it will add some cheap scoring units to my army, IG and the angels of death!!

[iDaemon]

I ain't freaking out!! Kinda excited/apprehensive though ...

Wound allocation: seems very complex. And, like he said, is gonna cause a lot of teeth pulling. Not only 'closest', but you gotta be able to see them. It's bad enough trying to work out LOS in 5th.

Tanks: mixed feelings. Some of the new rules seem to improve things (plague bearers might actually be able to open a rhino). But with fliers, and monsters losing armour pen ... Would be sweet if the bloodthirster could do str18 attacks (double strength), but I doubt that'll be allowed.

Deepstrike: you crossed them out! Though they were just a copy of the ones leaked at the beginning of the year. The new mishap table suggests they won't be too different from 5th.

Power weapons: nice having different types. Just hope hellblades are gonna stay AP2. Bloodletters just don't need to be any worse.

Fear: just funny. GW adding a little fluff! Kinda worries me actually  

All in all, there don't seem to be too many changes to streamline the game. Just added complexity.

Anyways, hopefully I'll get a game or two on the 30th. And, with a little practice I'm sure I'll have just as much to whine about as I do now  

[Wolf Patrick]

Allies are an old thing coming back. I suspect that Shane is right, and that you won't see them in tournaments unless they are nerfed big-time.

Removing casualities starting from the closest model is just plain stupid. All it is going to create are new arguments as to which model is closer.

I'm really trying to stay positive and wait until the new rule book comes out, however if it's really that bad I'll have no issues with continuing to play 5th edition 40k until 7th comes out.

[Idolator]

TheDirtyHippy, on 25 June 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

Added a ton more.

This whole thing really punches orks in the guts.

No Initiative bonus for charge, can't disembark after moving 12, only las guns will allow an armor save, cover save down to 5+, No psyker card use, over watch, loss of bonus attack for multiple charge. Plasma guns that hit will pretty much destroy trukks. Melta weapons that hit trukks or wagons will take them out almost every time.

Heck, combine the overwatch rule with the loss of initiative bonus, loss of bonus attack for charging multiples and the fact that all close combat weapons ignore ork armor. That proposition makes assaulting a unit of Guardsmen something that you might not want to do.  

Shoot, A ten man squad of guardsmen with a commissar: two plasma pistols, a heavy bolter and melta gun in the squad with Krak grenandes. 135 points
This unit would run up to the rear of a battlewagon and probably take it out (a little less sure on the side)then just sit still and wait for the orks to try to assault. You would lose about half of your boys and a wagon to a unit that was laughable before.

[TheDirtyHippy]

Battlewagons can move 18" now...

[TheDirtyHippy]

Or you can put 15 lootas in a battlwagon, move 12" and shoot all the weapons on the BW and all the lootas (at BS 1).

[TheDirtyHippy]

I'm also pretty sure my Stormboys can get a first turn charge the majority of the time.

12" move + D6"
2D6" charge, reroll one D6.

[Pyrian]

Falcon/Prisms got kicked hard in the survivability department. 3 (or 4?) glances kills them without ever invoking the dreaded holofield.  Although, I like that they can move, get a 5+ cover save, and dump a reasonable amount of firepower all in one turn. Actually, that's probably going to be Wave Serpents...

Flickerfields probably aren't worth it anymore. More nightfight helps Dark Eldar, no question. As does automatically surviving at least one glancing hit.

All this allocation combined with Look Out Sir makes special and heavy weapon troopers sad.

Random HQ upgrade is annoying, especially given that some of them are potential game-changers. It's like everybody gets possessed!

Hey, is 6th edition going to be all out-MSU edition from hell? I mean, fifth got pretty MSU bad towards the end, and yet 5th edition has built in advantages for large units, like protecting special models, fewer No Retreat wounds, and lowering available KP's. It looks like all that is getting thrown out entirely in 6th edition. And then it gets better for MSU! Multi-charges take inherent penalties. Sergeants get new abilities. One grenade per squad. And probably some things I've missed.

[marc]

Quote

• At 2000 points, you get two Force Org charts and unlock the Terrain slot.

Does this mean we will see a lot less in the way of 2k point tournaments, leagues, and games over all? Because 2 FOCs at 2k seems like madness for some armies...

I can see it now... John Platt running around with 18 Tomb Spyders, producing 270 points worth of scarabs each turn.  

Or what about 30 Long Fangs!?!?

Or 36 Wraiths!?!?! (You know i'll do it!... ok, maybe not)

2,000+ Might as well just be called "Apocalypse".

[Pyrian]

It's way more restricted than that, according to the rumours I've seen.

[Idolator]

marc, on 25 June 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Does this mean we will see a lot less in the way of 2k point tournaments, leagues, and games over all? Because 2 FOCs at 2k seems like madness for some armies...

I can see it now... John Platt running around with 18 Tomb Spyders, producing 270 points worth of scarabs each turn.  

Or what about 30 Long Fangs!?!?

Or 36 Wraiths!?!?! (You know i'll do it!... ok, maybe not)

2,000+ Might as well just be called "Apocalypse".

How about 90 Lootas with 4 shokk attack guns!!!!! 6 manticores. 6 Deathstrike missles!!!!! 18 hellhounds.

18 scout sentinels with a variety of weapons. 4 Nob biker squads, all scoring!

Also, what the heck is MSU?

[marc]

MSU = Multiple Small Units

Will the FOC be restrictive? I have not seen any rumors that would suggest otherwise.
As of right now, the rumors say the FOC will look like this http://img853.images...2/forceorg4.png

I am also bummed that Tyranids wont be given the option for allies. Perhaps they will allow them the option to ally with them selves? Just to have that extra (and oh so precious) elite slot.

Necron Catacomb Command Barges also seem to have taken a huge nerf to their sweeping attack rule based on how movement for vehicles works. Since sweeping attacks are made during the movement phase, I can only go up to 12" to do it instead of the normal 24" flat out    Oh well, at least rapid fire gauss weapons are awesome now.

Anyone know what they will do for relentless? Will it be +1 shot for the unit ontop of what it is now?

[Idolator]

marc, on 26 June 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

MSU = Multiple Small Units

That's a non-sensical acronym. It should never be used. Ever.

[iDaemon]

marc, on 26 June 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

MSU = Multiple Small Units

I was wondering what 40K had to do with a redneck university...

Anyways, seems like most of these rules are designed to discourage assault armies. Other than the wide-spread night fighting rule. Some games are going to be: sit back, and wonder if there's anyone on the other side of the table ...

But on the plus side: Daemons get to ally with Tau, and Imperial Guard!  

BLOOD FOR THE ... greater good ..
SKULLS FOR THE ... golden throne ... and stuff ..

There is no time for peace. No respite. No forgiveness.
There is only .. hehe, just kidding! You get peace, respite, forgiveness, and marshmallows too!!!